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Contest, refute the CAGV!!!

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CaptMac
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Contest, refute the CAGV!!!

Postby CaptMac » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:14 pm

OK, here it is, a contest to refute the CAGV FAQ. CT Against Gun Violence has a list of so-called FAQ, that is Frequently Asked Questions.
See: http://www.cagv.org/wp/wp-content/uploa ... GV-FAQ.pdf

The whole list of FAQ by the CAGV is a pack of lies. I have insufficient time to refute each

Whoever can give the best response to any of these so-called FAQ, gets one box, Federal Value Pack Ammo, .22lr, 550 rounds. Yes, it is worth a little more than $20, but your liberty should be worth much more. The best response, gets a box of ammo. The best response is and should not be anything that restricts my liberty to buy, sell and own anything.

I am not going to make the decision. I am going to draft three active members of ctguntalk.com to decide who wins this prize, and I am going to offer the same prize on ctguntalk.com to be judged by three members of this forum. I am giving up two boxes of .22lr, and if no one wants .22lr, it is $20 from my pocket. If you win your choice. But post it here, on this thread.

To get you all started, here we go with some of mine. These are only suggestions, so have at it.

THE TRUTH: A fully automatic rifle will continue to fire so long as the trigger is depressed and the rifle has been loaded with ammunition. When either the rifle runs out of ammunition or the trigger stops being depressed it will stop shooting. A semi-automatic rifle is a semi-automatic rifle. A semi-automatic rifle will only fire one round when the trigger is squeezed. An accurate shooter uses aimed fire, ensuring the rifle is sighted in before each shot is taken. A shooter that shoots 30 rounds in 5 seconds from a semi-automatic firearm will miss.
Semi-automatic AR-15s are internally different from the fully automatic M-16, issued to the military. However, they are similar in external appearance. The hammer and trigger mechanisms are of a different design. The bolt carrier and internal lower receiver of semi-automatic versions are milled differently, so that the firing mechanisms are not interchangeable. This was done to satisfy United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives requirements that civilian weapons may not be easily convertible to full-automatic.

THE TRUTH: The federal law banning the sale of semi‐automatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines, known as the federal assault weapons ban, was allowed to expire because it was not effective. Since it expired crime rates have dropped. However, part of this act included prohibiting guns from being brought into schools. Since that time schools have become targets for mass murderers as schools contain numerous defenseless victims.

THE TRUTH: Connecticut bans assault weapons, and that ban had no impact on the shooting in Newtown.



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CaptMac
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Postby CaptMac » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:21 pm

Deadline for submissions 6:00 p.m. Sunday January 28, 2013!!

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PaiN
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Postby PaiN » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:27 am

...Where to start?
The entire document is based on distortions and misconceptions.
It is all written from fear injected into the public mindset in order to start the process of removing the last bulwark to full authoritative/governmental control of the population.
This system already has us in all but the illusion of freedom.......It can not pull that off while we still have the ability to fight. Once the guns are gone we all but powerless in the face of oppressive force, all bets are off.....and make no mistake about it, the system is coming for your guns.
Last edited by PaiN on Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Destroyer has arrived

"Even well-ordered republics are destined to decay into democracy and then into despotism." -Plato

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CaptMac
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Postby CaptMac » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:54 am

PaiN wrote:...Where to start?


Somewhere, anywhere.

Pick one of the FAQ, then write the "Truth", and post it here.

Write your own new FAQ, and write a response to it, then post it. Make up an FAQ: Why are semi-automatic rifles that look like the AR-15 so popular? Why do gun grabbers fear bayonet lugs? Why do Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer have concealed carry permits, but think you cannot?

Then write a response.

Let's go!!!

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PaiN
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Postby PaiN » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:01 am

CaptMac wrote:
PaiN wrote:...Where to start?


Somewhere, anywhere.

Pick one of the FAQ, then write the "Truth", and post it here.

Write your own new FAQ, and write a response to it, then post it. Make up an FAQ: Why are semi-automatic rifles that look like the AR-15 so popular? Why do gun grabbers fear bayonet lugs? Why do Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer have concealed carry permits, but think you cannot?

Then write a response.

Let's go!!!

I did (and I fixed the typos..sorry, hadn't finished my coffee before I started writing :oops:)
The Destroyer has arrived



"Even well-ordered republics are destined to decay into democracy and then into despotism." -Plato

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Postby KenT » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:23 pm

I dont have time to do this but whoever else does, dont forget to include using the pistol grip and if applicable, foregrip as positive features, i.e. ERGONOMIC. These are not features to make "spraying" easier. They exist to assist in he prevention of potential long term injuries of a user. THAT IS ALL.

I know its a competition but I would encourage all of us to add more suggestions as we all have only to win from it.

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sigequinox
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Postby sigequinox » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:55 pm

wow, just looked at the page (link wasnt working for me btw, found it on google), this is going to be fun. Most of this is the misleading, bordering on lies. Time to educate these fools!

Be back in a few hours with your request!

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sigequinox
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Postby sigequinox » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:00 pm

okay all done, i hope this fits in the comment box. I sure can use a box of 22lr :)

So i spliced my answers into the FAQ. originally i had it to that my comments were in red, but i cant seem to figure out how to get that to work on here nor can i figure out how to edit once submitted. So I havw placed a ***next to my comments which start with "Fact:"

Enjoy.....
--------------------------------------------

Q. What is the difference between semi‐automatic hunting rifles and semi‐automatic,
military‐style assault weapons?

A. Sporting rifles and assault weapons are two distinct classes of firearms. While semi‐
automatic hunting rifles are designed to be fired from the shoulder and depend upon the
accuracy of a precisely aimed projectile to kill an animal, semi‐automatic assault weapons
are designed to kill as many people quickly, as would be needed in combat. Assault weapons
are equipped with military features to allow rapid spray firing for the quick and efficient
killing of humans.

****Fact: Sporting rifles and “assault rifles” are artificially forced into 2 distinct categories of weapon based on arbitrary characteristics that are inconsistent from state to state and even with the former Federal Assault Weapons Ban. Additionally, what you call “assault weapons” like sporting rifles, are also shoulder fired weapons.

Also, just to be clear, the CAGV deliberately chose to pair the word “animal” with “sporting rifle” and “people” with “assault weapon”. I assure you that sporting rifles can indeed kill people and should be treated with the same caution and respect as those “evil military looking weapons.” Make no mistake, there is no such thing as magical bullet that comes out of a sporting gun and is ferried by a unicorn into the heart of a dear. It is, IN FACT, the intention of the person operating the gun that determines what it kills. To the same extent, thousands of those “evil black rifles” are used to hunt game all over the world.

“Rapid spray firing” is already illegal, for the most part. One needs to have a Class III firearms license to obtain a full automatic machine gun—or what most of us in the firearms world would call, an “assault rifle.” Also, the military uses the M4, M16 and other full auto weapons for warfare, not the AR-15. The M4 and M16 are selct fire weapons that allow the operator to choose been safe (non firing), semi auto, and full auto (spraying death machine).

For what it’s worth, “rapid spray firing” IS NOT designed for “quick and efficient killing”. Quite the opposite actually. Spray firing in full auto is inherently inaccurate and it makes for an uncontrollable weapon due to incessant recoil. The purpose of full auto is for suppressive fire: keeping the enemy’s behind cover so they cant return fire while you advance. But this is not about strategy or tactics, its about our freedom, so I will stop digressing.

Fun Fact:Did you know that the “assault weapons ammunition” that many would like to ban is actually a very popular hunting caliber used even in many different bolt action rifles?
*************
Opponents of banning assault weapons argue that these military‐style weapons only “look”
scary. Assault weapons look scary and are scary because they are equipped with combat
hardware. Combat features like large capacity ammunition magazines, pistol grips, silencers,
folding stocks, and bayonets, which are not found on sporting guns, are designed specifically
to facilitate the killing of human beings in battle.

****FACT: Okay, okay folks, let’s just calm down for a minute and touch base with the planet earth, please. It sounds an awful lot to me like you don’t actually know what you are talking about and, instead, are just trying to repeat what you heard somewhere else. If not, please explain to me how a “pistol grip” makes a weapon an “evil military baby killing gun”? Yeah, thought so….

Silencers and bayonets? Are you kidding me? Let me just start by telling you what you parents should have instilled in you a long time ago “don’t believe everything you see in the movies.” Seriously, these kinds of responses are just a simple matter of “too much T.V.”

Exactly how many bayonet killings have you had in your community lately? Am I not aware of an epidemic bayonet murder campaign that’s going on? And silencers are only on military style rifles, really? Any barrel can be threaded to fit a suppressor. Many bolt action rifles are suppressed for both military and sporting purposes. “but bolt action rifles are not assault weapons!”. See, now your starting to get it.

Fun fact: did you know silencers (aka suppressors) require special applications and a tax stamp to purchase and possess? You need to fill out a form with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) and be approved by them and local law enforcement in order to receive permission to obtain one. I think it’s safe to say none of these are used in crimes.
********

Large capacity magazines of ten rounds or more would be banned entirely in CT by
our proposed legislation.

****FACT: A recent event in early January involving a mother from Loganville Georgia addresses this very issue. While home with her 2 children, the mother heard knocking on the door, not expecting anyone she looked out to see a man she did not recognize and decided not to open the door. The man then went to his car to grab a crow bar while the terrified woman called her husband, the police and gathered both her children and a .38 caliber revolver to go hide in a nearby closet. The man, Paul Slater, successfully entered the house and made his way into the room where the mother and her 2 children were hiding. When he opened the door, she shot him 5 times in the chest, face, and neck. Slater survived, but the woman and her kids were able to make it to safety at a neighbor’s house. How many rounds would have been enough? What if more than one intruder were involved? These questions are for the individual to answer, not the government.

The second amendment does not protect our right to hunt deer; it protects our right to self-preservation and the preservation of our family. Arbitrarily deciding the number of cartridges a law abiding, tax paying citizen can have in their weapon doe’s nothing to enhance the safety of that individual or their family. In the story of the Georgian mother, the only person that benefitted from being armed with fewer than 10 rounds was the criminal.

Fun Fact: criminals don’t care about the round limits.
*******
Additionally, weapons with any one or more of the following features would bebanned by the currently proposed legislation. The law in effect right now
requires a weapon to have two of the features to meet the banned definition.

 A folding stock which facilitates maximum concealment and mobility in close combat
(which comes at the expense of the accuracy desired in a hunting weapon);

****FACT: A folding stock adjusts roughly 4 inches. The overall length of the rifle remains at 26 inches or more. Not exactly a “concealable” size. This only changes the “length of pull”—distance from the trigger to the end of the stock, making the gun safer to shoot for people of different sizes and body types. A ban on adjustable stocks is discriminatory against women, kids, and people who are smaller or larger than average.

Not that the second amendment has anything to do with hunting, but I can’t allow these lies to go undisputed…An adjustable stock has NOTHING to do with accuracy. Mechanical factors involving accuracy are the bullet ballistics, ammunition quality, barrel rifling ratio, barrel length, sight radius (distance between front and rear sight) and trigger weight. I won’t go into the shooter factors, of which there are many, because they are irrelevant. I must ask that you remove this irrefutable error from your “fact” sheet. Thank you.

Fun Fact:If 4 inches matters with concealing a standard size rifle, then we should be making it mandatory to use 30 round magazines, as they add 4.5 inches to the width dimension over a flush 10 round magazine.
*******
 A pistol grip which facilitates spray‐fire from the hip without losing control. A pistol
grip also facilitates one‐handed shooting;

****FACT: While the phrase “spray-fire” is overdramatic and misleading, I agree that it provides added control of the gun. This makes it safer to shoot and anyone who has any real concern about the safety of other people would not wish to ban it, they would promote it.
*******
 A barrel shroud which enables the shooter to shoot many rounds because it cools the
barrel, preventing overheating. It also allows the shooter to grasp the barrel area to
stabilize the weapon, without incurring serious burns, during rapid fire;

***FACT: I have been a member of the firearms community for over 5 years now and have never even seen a barrel shroud. Have fun taking them away. Doing so only shows your true colors. You are out to grab our guns and pick away at our rights until there is nothing left. Otherwise you would not have wasted your time trying to ban a feature that no one uses, both legally or criminally. Your just making a list of things you have never heard of because they are related to guns.
*******
 A threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor which allows the
shooter to remain concealed when shooting at night, an advantage in combat but
unnecessary for hunting or sporting purposes. In addition, the flash suppressor is
useful for providing stability during rapid fire;

 A threaded barrel designed to accommodate a silencer which allows an assassin to
shoot without making noise. Silencers are illegal so there is no legitimate purpose for
making it possible to put a silencer on a weapon;
 A barrel mount designed to accommodate a bayonet which allows someone to stab a
person at close quarters in battle.

***FACT: What happens in Hollywood does not happen in the real world. This section is so out of touch with reality and public safety that it is not even worth addressing. Again, you show your
***********

Q. What is the difference between an automatic and a semi‐automatic weapon?

A. An automatic weapon (machine gun) will continue to fire as long as the trigger is
depressed (or until the ammunition magazine is emptied). A semi‐automatic weapon will fire
one round and instantly load the next round with each pull of the trigger. Semi‐automatic
firearms fire as rapidly as you can depress your finger.
This means that a semi‐automatic fires a little more slowly than an automatic, but not much
more slowly. When San Jose, California police test‐fired an UZI, a 30‐round magazine was
emptied in slightly less than two seconds on full automatic while the same magazine was
emptied in just five seconds on semi‐automatic.

****FACT: Just when I thought there may have been one truly objective unbiased fact on here, you went and threw in your opinionated dribble. This is just getting exhausting….Standard M4 (full auto military version of the evil black AR-15) shoots at a rate of 700-900 rounds per minute. You better have some lighting fast fingers.
*****
Ownership of machine guns has been tightly controlled since passage of the National Firearms
Act of 1934, and their manufacture for the civilian market was halted in 1986. However,
semi‐automatic versions of those same guns are still being produced.

Q. Are semi‐automatic hunting rifles considered assault weapons?

A. No. The definition of an assault weapon is tightly drawn. Only semi‐automatic guns with
military‐style features would be banned. Traditional guns designed for use in hunting and
recreational activities should not be affected. To alleviate concerns that hunting weapons
somehow might be affected, the 1994 federal law provided specific protection to 670 types of
hunting rifles and shotguns.

In 2007, a long‐standing writer for Outdoor Life magazine, Jim Zumbo, made the following
comments in regards to military‐style assault weapons and hunting:

“I call them “assault” rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I’m a
traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I’ll go
so far as to call them “terrorist” rifles. They tell me that some companies are
producing assault rifles that are “tackdrivers.”

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don’t
need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is
an obvious concern. I’ve always been comfortable with the statement that hunters
don’t use assault rifles. We’ve always been proud of our ‘sporting firearms.’”

****FACT: The second amendment does not mention “hunting” at all. The second amendment was written to protect us against these very times, hence “shall not be infringed.” To say an AWB won’t affect hunting rifles is simply not true. Governor Cuomo of New York has set a precedence for unconstitutional gun grabbing in his state. A Ruger 10/22—essentially the quintessential boy scout rifle—is now considered an assault weapon under their definitions. Not only is that a hunting rifle, it is a learner’s rifle and essentially the staple of safe guns. They must be so much safer over there now….
********
Q. What happened to the federal assault weapons ban?

A. The federal law banning the sale of semi‐automatic assault weapons and large capacity
ammunition magazines, known as the federal assault weapons ban, was passed as part of the
Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. President Clinton signed it into law
on September 13, 1994. The law included a ten year “sunset” provision (the law would expire
in ten years if it was not renewed by Congress).

The assault weapons ban thus expired in September 2004 when Congress and President
George W. Bush took no action to save it. That means that AK47s and other semi‐automatic
assault weapons are once again available except in states where they are specifically banned.

Q. Do any states currently ban assault weapons?

A. Seven states — California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey and
New York — have state assault weapons bans. Connecticut is the only one of the seven that

did not ban large capacity ammunition magazines as part of the ban. We are currently
working on a new legislative proposal that will update and strengthen our current law in
Connecticut.

****FACT: You are not only proud, but bragging about taking away a constitutionally protected right and an instrument of freedom. How refreshing.
******
Q. What would a new CT assault weapons ban look like?

A. Our new proposed ban will be much stricter than the current law. Like California, it will
be based on the “one‐feature test” that bans any firearm that has even one military‐style
feature. Our current law requires two. So for instance, if a rifle has a pistol grip, which
facilitates spray fire, it will be banned under the current proposal, regardless of what other
military‐style features it does or doesn’t have.

****FACT: This would turn thousands of law-abiding citizens into felons overnight for features that do not actually do anything to make the gun more deadly. Almost everything on the list of features contributes to the ergonomics of the gun: adjusting the length of pull, changing the center of gravity to make the gun more stable, and enhanced control of the firearm to name a few. Arguably, most of us are SAFER with these features as they enable the gun to be modified to fit almost any body size, type, and strength. By eliminating features that make a gun more comfortable and controllable while shooting, the law will have the opposite outcome that it was created for.
******
Although the current Connecticut ban has been valuable at keeping many of the most
dangerous assault weapons out of criminals’ hands, it was also able to be evaded by gun
makers coming out with “copycat” assault weapons stripped of enough combat features to
evade the ban.

Gun makers designed guns specifically to evade the bans passed at the federal and state level
by making minor changes in features to banned weapons. The names of some of the new guns
reflected gun makers’ knowing violation of the spirit of the assault weapons ban: Intratec’s
AB (“After Ban”)‐10 and Olympic Arms PCR (“Politically Correct Rifle”).

****FACT: Your making it sound like these companies did shady backdoor loopholes. All they did was follow the rules and produce rifles that meet the definitions of the law. Didn’t realize it was illegal to make things legal.
******
Q. Have large‐capacity ammunition magazines been used in other mass shootings?

A. Yes. Large‐capacity magazines have been used in many mass shootings. The Violence
Policy Center has put together a comprehensive chart showing weapons and magazines
employed in many high‐profile mass shootings.

Registration of Handguns

Q. What would a requirement to register handguns involve?

A. Initially, gun owners would be required to register all handguns owned. All new purchases
of handguns would thenceforth require registration. Owners of handguns would be required
to renew their registration, and submit to a background check for all guns registered. On
renewal, gun owners would have to stipulate by signing the registration form, that they were
still in possession of all guns registered or, if any of the handguns were no longer in their
possession, explain the reason for any disposal, loss, or transfer of any of their guns.

Q. Why is handgun registration important?

A. Unlike drugs, all handgun sales start with a legal sale. Yet most gun crimes are committed
by persons who are prohibiting from owning guns. So it is obvious that guns legally purchased
are being illegally diverted into the black market. Registration, with required annual
renewal, and background check of the owner, is critically important because it is the only
way of knowing that the legal purchaser is still in possession of the gun and that he/she is in
fact still qualified to own, buy, possess and carry a gun.

Q. Do other states require registration?

A. Hawaii requires registration with no annual renewal.

Q. Will it be expensive for the state to administer a handgun registration system?

Registration and renewal fees would be able to cover the costs of the system. Estimated costs
have not been finalized, but a similar proposal from New York has estimated the cost to be
$50 for initial registration and $25 for renewal.

***FACT: I grew up in NY. I had my handgun license in NY. My handguns were registered. Last year, longarms, which are not registered, were responsible for 5 murders in NY, handguns were responsible for every other gun death. Criminals do not comply with background checks and licensing procedure. All registering does is impose temporal, economical, and privacy burdens on the law-abiding, tax paying citizen.
******
One Gun A Month

Q. Why One Gun a Month?

A. Limiting gun sales to one a month per individual is a good idea because large volume sales
make it easier for traffickers to turn a profit selling guns to dangerous people like felons and
domestic abusers. People buy guns in bulk at retail, and then sell them for profit in the
illegal market. Limiting bulk sales helps take the profit out of gun trafficking and makes it
easier to catch gun traffickers because they have to make more purchases to accumulate the
same number of guns.

Federal law enforcement regards the purchase of multiple handguns by a single buyer in a
single transaction as an indicator that the buyer intends to traffic the guns to the illegal
market. Handguns sold in multiple sales accounted for 20% of all handguns sold and traced to
crime in 2000. 1 Because of the NRA sponsored Tiahrt Amendment, this data is no longer
available to the public.

****FACT: SO we should make it illegal to purchase more than one gun a month? Why not, say, a questionnaire of why someone is purchasing more than, I don’t know, 5 guns in a month? This would be much more reasonable (a word thrown around a lot by you gun haters) than bannig multiple purchases per month. If Big Brother is skeptical of the answers to the questionnaire or by the individuals, unusually high purchase volume, they can take it upon themselves to dig deeper. Otherwise this is not unusual activity and should certainly not be illegal. I believe I purchased my first 2 guns within a month of each other. How does this work if you don’t like your gun and sell it back to FFL, do you then have to wait till month is over to get a new gun? Dumb.
*********

1

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, Crime Gun Trace Reports (2000) National Report,
Washington, DC: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (July 2002. P.52

Q. Do gun owners support laws to limit bulk sales of handguns?

A. Yes. In a survey done in 2003, sixty percent of gun owners support a law to limit bulk
sales of handguns. Support is even higher (72 percent) among people who live in households
with guns, but do not personally own a gun, and among non‐gun owners.2

Penalties For Safe Storage Violations

Q. What is the current Connecticut law regarding criminally negligent storage of a
firearm?

A. A person is guilty of criminally negligent storage of a firearm when a minor obtains the
firearm and causes the injury or death of himself or any other person. For this purpose, a
"minor" means any person under the age of sixteen years. Such a person if convicted would be
guilty of a Class D Felony for criminally negligent storage.

Q. Will there be a proposal to expand this Connecticut Law?

A. Yes, the change proposes that the same sanctions be applied for allowing access to
firearms through negligent storage to not just minors but to any person who is not the legal
owner of the firearm who obtains the firearm and causes injury or death to any other
person.

****FACT: My wife and I would be felons for using each others guns. Don’t you have anything better to do?

Closing fact: There are so many important issues that need to be addressed and your organization has not addressed any of them! Why are there so many mass shootings despite increasingly stricter gun laws? Why are so many teenagers and young adults expressing sociopathic behavior? Why is violence so prevalent? Violence is the problem in America today, blaming guns does nothing to help find real solutions to the problems we are facing today. I really hope you see through the smoke.

Sincerely,

Your organization sucks

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sigequinox
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Postby sigequinox » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:36 pm

Any winner yet?


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