News

We are now upgraded to the newest version of phpBB. It has more features. Enjoy.

If you've forgotten your password or are having trouble logging in, CLICK HERE for a reset password to be sent to you.

SIG SAUER Patrol Rifle Instructor Class AAR

Training related discussions.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
nuke
Marksman III
Marksman III
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:00 am

SIG SAUER Patrol Rifle Instructor Class AAR

Postby nuke » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:52 am

SIG SAUER Patrol Rifle Instructor Class AAR
Course dates: 1/11/2013 – 11/15/2013
Location: SIG SAUER Academy, Epping NH
Cost: $1,000 tuition

SIG estimated round count:
- 1,000 rounds rifle (I shot close to 1300 rounds and I was conserving rounds because I was buying/paying vice being sent by a PD/agency)
- 250 rounds pistol* (I shot maybe 50 rounds)

Why I took the class: My ultimate goal is to complete SIG’s “Master Firearms Instructor” course. To take that class you must complete the patrol rifle class, the pistol instructor class and the shotgun instructor class.

My viewpoint: My experience is from that of a civilian vice a law enforcement professional. There were 14 people in the class; some state troopers, some smaller PD personnel, a nuclear power plant security instructor, and a security contractor. Several of the police officers were members of tactical teams and one was a police sniper. I was impressed with their skill level and they all seemed to be great people. In the beginning I felt a little out of place as a civilian but by the end of the class I was friends with most of the guys and they are just regular people like you and I.

Instructors: I didn’t ask the instructor if I could ID him so I will say that the instructor was one of their senior instructors. At times we had an assistant instructor who was also a full time SIG instructor who did many of the demos and both instructors were very proficient. They covered a lot of material and we did a significant amount of shooting over the five days.

There were two major areas identified by the course description; Instructor Development and Tactical Marksmanship Development. The course seemed to focus on Tactical Marksmanship Development during the first four days. The fifth day focused on Instructor Development where we taught a group of local police officers our own version of the “Patrol Rifle Course”. This was a very good exercise.

In reality our instructor was teaching us to be instructors by continuously demonstrating proper teaching techniques such as say it/teach it (X2+), demonstrate it (X2+), have us demonstrate/walkthrough/dry fire (X2++) and having us perform (X2+++++). He also drove home the fact that many repetitions were required to “learn” a new skill and that we would have to practice what we learned for it to become a reflex and then revisit that training over time to maintain a given level of proficiency.

As stated by SIG; successful course credit requires a passing score on a shooting qualification test to be administered by the instructor before course conclusion. The qualification test was challenging. It involves shooting from different distances in different positions/on the move with both rifle and pistol with time limits. There is a minimum score required to pass. Several things make the test difficult; the SIG silhouette targets have scoring rings that are not visible beyond about five yards, the scoring area is high in the silhouette compared to an IDPA or IPSIC/USPSA target and a hit on the line was considered a miss. If I remember correctly the body scoring ring was 8" dia and the head was 4" dia. We had several opportunities to take the test and I would say most (75%) students did pass the test after 3 tries. I was told SIG uses this same qualification test for their "Master Instructor" class and as you would expect, the word got around what score was required to pass the “Master” qualification. There were two of us that scored high enough to meet the Master criteria. Off-hand at 50yds seemed to be the killer.

As far as an overall assessment of the class I give it an A-. If the course was designed as “Patrol Rifle – Advanced” I would give it an A+. As an instructor course it was a little light in instructional methods but was very good in application of shooting and weapon handling techniques.

What I liked: Shooting of course! Too many other things to list but the houses in Area 51 were cool! I would rather die than have my foot touch the ground!

What I think could be improved:
1. Devote some instruction time to the basics of instruction/adult education techniques.
2. More on evaluation/recommendation of gear for a patrol officer to use. Maybe have the students use patrol gear one day vice their full up tactical stuff. Example, no chest rigs just simple go bags and a rifle.
3. More information on ammunition testing results from organizations like the FBI and the results of SIG’s own testing in their “shoot through the car” classes. Several of the students I spoke with were looking for guidance in these areas.
4. SIG does have a verbal critique time at the end of the course and some good discussion did occur. But in a verbal feedback session like that few people will make negative comments or make recommendations, it’s just human nature. Like any company which relies on customer satisfaction, SIG needs to use an effective feedback system to make meaningful improvements to their courses.

Overall, highly recommended! If you are a civilian be aware that these type courses are geared for Police Officers. My next class should be the 3 day Shotgun instructor class in April 2014 and then the 5 day pistol instructor class to follow.

David E.



User avatar
nuke
Marksman III
Marksman III
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:00 am

Gear for any 2 gun course.

Postby nuke » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:53 am

Just some thoughts on gear that I would think would apply to any class where a pistol is used in combination with a rifle or shotgun.

- I started with a classic instructor’s belt to which I had mounted: Serpa holster for pistol (3 o’clock), Maxpedition dump pouch (5 o’clock), Single Bladetech AR pouch (6-7 o’clock), double Bladetech mag pouch (8-9 o’clock), two single Bladetech mag pouches (9-10 o’clock).
What I learned:
- This setup worked but was not the best because it was under my coat (cold as blue blazes there!) and there was not enough room or flexibility to move things around such as the AR pouch to the right side for single hand AR shooting reloading drills.
- I considered using a chest rig but the one I have rides too low and interferes with my pistol and mags mounted on the belt. Those that used chest rigs either had the pistol mounted from the rig or in a drop leg mount. Also, those with chest rigs could not bipod off their magazine when prone because the rig kept them too high.
- My final set-up was using a normal belt in my pants with my instructor belt on the outside of my coat. This allowed me more room and options to move mag pouches and my dump bag around on the belt. I was able to add an additional single AR mag pouch for a total of 4 AR mags on the belt. If your stomach is bigger than your hips, then this won’t work.
- I would not consider taking a class like this without a dump pouch.
- Next time I will most likely upgrade to a “battle belt”. I know they get bashed here and other forums but in a training environment they are the bomb. They provide more grip on the waste without high tension on the belt. They minimize twisting of the belt when drawing mags from pouches. They are easy to take on and off. So with a limited lunch time you can just drop the belt with all gear intact and go. There is a reason the instructors use a battle belt; it works great in this application.
- I loaded 12 AR mags each morning. This allowed me to just switch mags during our short reload/hydrate breaks vice loading mags. So I could take my time and have a snack, help the instructor with targets, and more importantly keep my hands warm instead of stripping off my gloves to load mags!
- I carried all my gear/mags/water/extra ammo in a Maxpedition Pigmy Falcon = outstanding.
- Hearing protection; foam plugs with electronic muffs over a warm hat provides sufficient protection when shooting rifle and you can hear the instructor/voice commands.
- I used both standard Mechanix gloves and Mechanix original cold weather gloves with hot hands in the palms except when shooting = warm hands.
- Rifle sling, make sure your hardware is up to the task. Use quality sling swivels with a quality sling. I used a V-Tac.

David E.

User avatar
nuke
Marksman III
Marksman III
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:00 am

Using the GI Bill for Firearms classes

Postby nuke » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:55 am

I used my Post 911 GI Bill education benefits for this class. When the paperwork is done and all payments are made I will post about the process of using the GI bill to pay for this type of class.

David E.

User avatar
nuke
Marksman III
Marksman III
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:00 am

Postby nuke » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:50 pm

Just an update – I mentioned in my write-up that SIG Academy had no official course feedback system. About 3 weeks after the class was over I received an email with a link asking me to fill out a survey. I completed the survey and made some recommendations, one of which was to update information concerning the use of steel core ammo. Within a day or so of my completing the survey I got an email from Adam Painchaud the director of the academy thanking me for my input, saying that he would insure the course description was updated and saying he hoped I would take more classes at the Academy. Within a day or so I checked the website and the course had been updated. I want to give a BZ to Adam and SIG for taking their customer’s feedback seriously and making changes where appropriate. Definitely a sign of a first class organization.


Return to “Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests